Ken Gessford, Oral History

Recorded: May 2, 1995
Interviewed by Connie Sickels
Transcribed by Athena Salaba 

Note: This transcript includes geo-references to locations that are discussed in the oral history. Geographical names linked in the transcript will open in a new window or tab that takes you to that location information and map in the Mapping May 4 project. To request a transcript without geo-reference links included, please contact Kent State University Special Collections & Archives.

My name is Ken Gessford. I live at [removed for reasons of privacy]. However, my background is, I'm a teacher. I graduated from Kent State University during the May 4th incident. I was -- I was teaching and I was also a graduate student in Art at Kent State University.

That particular day, I was teaching and I heard it, over -- from another teacher, what had happened, and I remember it making my heart pound real heavy. And it made me a little nervous, and having an attention deficit to begin with, I was pretty off the wall about what was happening.

Number one, is that my wife -- at that time I lived at 547 South Lincoln Street, in Kent Ohio, which is just right up from McGilvrey Hall. And the night before that incident I remember there was an armored personnel vehicle parked right at the end of our street, right at McGilvrey Hall. And -- which was unconserting [sic].

One of the things that I remember at that time that happened was -- and this is after thinking about this -- my wife during that time -- talking to her I think this had the biggest -- I think she was out in my yard playing with my child. Being that close to the University, and knowing, and having being a veteran, I knew that the velocity of the weapons that they were using was over a mile. And so, I was less than a mile from this incident. So I'm thinking stray bullets could, you know, hurt my family, and that was one of the things that bothered me. However, what really upset me initially was, I think the flux of the whole situation, the war situation. I was a veteran of that era and I also was a student at this particular time.

But I can remember the day before this happened, that it was such a beautiful day, it was the 3rd. And I remember my child, I had him in a Gerry carrier, I was with one of my friends and we went down to see what was happening. And we were walking along the streets, and I remember walking on Main Street and they had -- there were darts, and all the kids -- I saw some coeds talking to the Guards, it was like a very friendly kind of encounter. And even with the Guardsmen that we encountered they seemed to be very friendly, seemed to be just young kids, not too much younger than I. And, of course, having been a veteran, I was sort of -- I knew something about that, I asked that -- but yeah, I still had some feelings about the war going on, and dragging on. I think that it was a sense of force with -- maybe a force of groups of people who could make a difference in maybe stopping the war, it was so silly. One of the things I think I saw the rush of economics, because of the war, and the economy, and the isolation of -- of politicians not knowing what to do. The escalation of the war, and having some friends who -- who never made it back -- was rather traumatic at that time. However I was focused more -- I'd just gotten a job, and I was focused more on my job and -- however, I was doing graduate work.

The thing is that the night that they burned the ROTC building, when my wife and I were laying in bed -- this may have been the 2nd, I think it was a Friday night if I'm not mistaken. It could have been Saturday night, I can't remember dates now, it seems such a long time ago. But I heard the sounds of a crowd like in a stadium, thousands and thousands of people, it sounded like, swarming. And I went out -- I got out of bed and I went down, went out onto my porch and I could see right down, clear down to the Main Street. I could see the students were coming around the corner by Main, by Kent Supplies, as a matter of fact. And there were thousands of students coming up toward our home, and -- it seems there were thousands, it just seems all I could see was just movement, it looked like ants moving. A lot of noise -- it seemed to be some kind -- yes, it seemed to be a relatively ordered crowd, but I didn't see any from my observation of what this was, but my wife and I sat and watched this.

And just as they reached the top of Summit, at South Lincoln, and then they went on up to Summit. And from then on I didn't pay a whole lot of attention, but I guess that night they burned down the -- they had done some damage to downtown Kent, which I don't condone, and I think from that standpoint I think it could have been an honorable situation, but when they start damaging, I was upset. Because it was my town, it draws in police, and it draws some defensive situations, and -- that need to be taken care of. When mass hysteria, is what I was thinking at the time -- because when they started coming toward my home, up toward us, and then they just kept going up to Summit Street.

And then, from then on I just turned the radio on- and I just remember some things, and there was some music playing, and then just hearing some certain things about downtown that got ransacked: broken windows and things like that, some businesses. And I think from that standpoint I couldn't understand the tie-in between that and the Vietnam resistance. So, from that point I can remember the next day, of course they brought in the Guard, and -- and the next day, when this happened -- this is -- I'm trying to do it chronologically here, I think this was on a Sunday or Saturday.

[end of Tape 2:B]

[Tape 3:A]

Well as far -- to continue, from that standpoint of just visiting downtown, of course there were some helicopter encounters. It seemed that it was like a strange thing, that -- I think it was Sunday evening, the night before the actual incident -- was, the helicopters, were circling, I can remember, it took about 49 seconds -- we were counting -- every 49 seconds a helicopter would come over, and they had spotlights on and you could actually see the guys and -- from that.

I'm pretty-- I'm thinking this is before, I'm trying to think, maybe -- because I left the day that happened, so it was the day before. And the helicopters were going over our house and I remember all the kids, we lived where a lot of students -- like, the Black United Students lived next door to us, and they had like, a little Frat house next to us. And there was all-student housing along South Lincoln Street. There was -- I think there was a Jewish Fraternity which was Hillel, or something like that, I think was the name of it. It was down the street to the left of us. So, there were a lot of kids, and all the kids -- when the helicopters were going, over all the kids -- I think there was some reference to, and I think this is before, I'm little confused right now, seems like. But the memories of the helicopters was that I didn't feel very comfortable with helicopters, so -- hovering over us. And one of things that this -- the kids were like sort of funny, we were laughing at all the kids -- they were out sort of running the streets. I remember -- between -- they'd tell people -- with two loud speakers "please stay in your home" and the kids would -- every time helicopters -- they'd run from one house to the other. And they were like, playing tag with the -- And then they would send the -- I remember a jeep and it had two Guardsmen, two guys from the military and they had a State policeman with them, three people per jeep. And they obviously were some kind of contact, and then they'd patrol the streets.

The thing that really bothered me about that situation was -- and this went into pretty much late -- it was pretty much -- I remember going to sleep at that time -- but the next day in the middle of the street there were like bricks and two-by-fours that had been lobbed up over the houses, obviously at the Guardsmen, and I thought "Gee, that's pretty dangerous" when I saw the bricks and the rocks, and you know- it could really hurt someone. And I remember cleaning up some of the street, because -- so, the next day I think it was, I remember going to work that day, and I remember cleaning up some stuff up out of the street, because it was all up and down the street.

So, one of the things that I remember then, of course, going to work and then hearing that information and trying to get back into Kent. And coming back there were roadblocks, I couldn't get in, and my family was there, my young child and my wife. And then I tried every way, every place I would go, I would be blocked. And they sort of had a back way, and I took some back ways up to Crain Avenue, I remember, they let me cross the Crain Avenue bridge and I told them I had to get to my family. And some Guardsmen, or highway patrolman would be very sympathetic, and they'd let me get through. And when this happened -- so, I remember trying to get to my house at that time, and it was very, very difficult. Some people would let me through and some people wouldn't let me through, that was really -- So I found myself weaving up and down the streets. In fact, I remember one guy told me no, and he didn't look like -- he looked like an auxiliary officer, so I thought, "well, he is not a regular police officer", so I just took off anyway. Because I felt that I really needed to get home. Had he probably been a state patrolman, or something like that, I probably wouldn't have done that. I just felt I had to get home, so I did. My wife was glad to see me, I remember that.

And then -- and then there came things over the news that there was a lot of information -- about, you had to be out of town, and making them close the city six o'clock -- you had to be out of town. And a young gal, I couldn't remember her name -- she was in the Black United Students -- lived next door to us,and she said that -- she had baby-sat for us a couple times for Ben, so she knew Ben. I don't think she particularly cared for us so much but she did like Ben a lot. And she said that she heard that the Black United Students were planning on burning that whole area up north on South Lincoln Street -- all of the area just as a statement, and that she felt it would be wise for us to leave our home, and we only had till six, this was like, at five o'clock now. So we had about an hour. We picked up most of the things we had, that we really cherished, and we left. The thing -- I was rather -- I remember how resentful I was, that I felt like I had to leave my home, and leave everything that I had, everything that we worked for. That we had to leave it in this little house that was probably going to be demolished. And the interesting thing from that was we did -- we left, we got out just at six o'clock. I remember like, 6:02 or something, we were crossing the border out on 43 and we went home to our in-laws, and then listened, you know, to -- and then we came back I think, the next day or we waited a day and then came back the week after that.

Being an artist at that time, I was doing graduate work, and I used -- we had a -- I couldn't understand the senselessness of it, and I saw some kind of a -- I remember my house, looking out the window, and there was a lot of activity, a lot of strange activity around the house, which normally I don't, at night. There was a barn up behind which was owned by Smith's Greenhouse, and that's were he stored tractors, and I remember that I could see a light in there -- I mean it was a darkened building, there was no electricity in the building, but there was a light in there. I remember being in the bathroom and looking down, and looking out that window because our window was even with the height of the -- because it was up on the hill -- with the building. And I saw some light flashing up there and some students, I saw them running up there, I think it was students -- I don't know who thery were, but they didn't look like Guardsmen, they looked like -- it was dark -- it was dark, but I could see the light because behind that were -- there was a big field and there were some university buildings over there. So, I could see the light and people running into that building. What they were doing I don't know. This was like maybe a day before, a couple days -- this is during that -- right before the actual thing, so I didn't know what was happening there, I didn't pay much attention to it.

But, I think I did make some mention to Mr. Smith that I'd seen some people in his -- going into his building. He said, "Well, they couldn't get in there anyway". What they were doing, they were pulling it out -- a hanging door -- and they were pulling it form the very bottom, and that's how they were getting in, that's how -- the angle, I could see the angle, when that door would open up. And they had some light in there, I don't know if it was candles or whatever they had. And another thing that was, I remember, I had a studio down on South Water Street. I thought that was strange at that time, but I never tied anything in with this -- I don't know what the implications were to begin with. But -- maybe some kids were just partying, I don't know. It could have been.

Another thing, I remember some people downtown and Walter -- I was down Water Street -- my studio was right down on North Water Street, and we used to go to Walter's and there were a lot -- in the afternoon all the pillars of society were there and -- like the people, the real estate people, they all had lunch there, and about -- about all the hippies would meet there after four o'clock. And I don't -- I'm not saying that in a demeaning way, but it changed. The guys with the motorcycles, they don't meet in there after four o'clock. It is a totally different kind of community in the evening. But I remember things going pretty actively at that time. And I was pretty -- I mean, I was just concerned about getting some ceramic pots made, I mean I wasn't -- I'm not really political in any way, I mean, I'd served my time and I wasn't worried about the draft or anything like that. So, some people were more concerned about things like that than I was. I knew I'd served my time and, I had that out of the way, so I was really concentrating on getting a degree and had a family, of course I was married.

But guys were down there contemplating on how they could destroy the city of Kent. And I remember -- I don't know these guys, I don't even know who they were, I mean they were just sort of sitting around they were -- all the tables were close together. I can remember the two guys I was with, I don't remember who the other people were, because there was a community, like, of tables. In other words, you could come in and sit at any table, it wasn't like you had your own little table, it was a different time and it was sort of a community kind of thing, if there was free chair there, you just take the chair. The guys were talking and intellectualizing about the war, I remember. I remember some of the guys were talking about how they would destroy the city of Kent, they would -- and I thought "boy, that's really strange", you know that's all they had to think about. They would knock over four -- they would set downtown on fire, knock over four fireplugs, and that would totally deplete the water supply. And they were talking about that, how they could deplete -- I never paid any attention to that, but this was prior to the Kent. I mean, I didn't know who they were, I'd never seen them before, because I was over there quit a bit, you know, at that time.

But it was -- it was a pretty strange time to begin with and I was sort of resentful that I had to leave my home and -- and give up everything that I had, everything that I worked for, and I didn't have a whole lot but, what I did have I was...

Those are some of the things that I remember very distinctly and -- after the killing -- the shootings I should say, I don't want to say, [laughter], I don't want to say killing, but, after the shootings, I mean, I just -- it was just like this same feeling I had with this bombing in Oklahoma City, I mean, I have the same kind of emptiness. I mean, here it is, you know, all these years after that and certain things happened and -- when Kennedy was killed, then when Robert Kennedy was killed, and Martin Luther King was killed, you know, it's just an emptiness and -- helplessness, and I think this -- and knowing, you know, the biological and nuclear ploriferation. And then going through the Desert Storm, I feel that was really -- that's just helplessness, feeling like, you're just lucky day to day, almost.

I mean, nobody knows, sometimes there are cowardly acts and sometimes there are acts of nobility. I think that the, personally, that when you get into a civil situation, that maybe I look at the University as a service sense of sanity, you know, education, you know, teaching people at a higher level of thinking, a higher level of order about things.

I still see people at the University smoking cigarettes and I'm thinking, somebody is not doing a good job. And ah, it's just mind boggling what happened and I still, you know, I still think about it a lot. May 4th is coming around again. And the interesting thing is that I'm seeing like a lot of kids, who once went -- I mean the first couple of years all the kids would go, I mean, I hardly had any kids in my classes on May 4th. And now maybe it might be one or two kids. And there's a different spirit today than it was at that time I think it was a more cohesive time. But I think it is an uncertainty and things were certainly tied economically to this whole thing.

And that's probably what I have to say, that I can remember.

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